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GT Triple Triangle?
#41
Hi Bill,
Yes, measuring the current spoke(s) is a good start. You might get away with a -2 mm difference but, it won't be optimal.
However, if you lace new rims on those hubs - throw the old spoke lengths out the window. Very little chance that the new build will require the same lengths. Keep in mind that the rear requires 2 diff lengths in most cases!
I prefer to use SpokePrep by Wheelsmith on the threads. Follow the instructions!
http://www.miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.html is an easily read wealth of info.
Wheelies don't pop themselves. (from a QBP fortune cookie)
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#42
Hi Bill;

I use spocalc to determine the length of spokes that I need:
http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm

You can measure hubs with a digital calipers easily - I have a 150mm/6" one from Harbor Frieght that works very well - have had it almost 15 years now; and have bought them for work at my current and previous employers.

Rim manufactures publish the ERD which is used spocalc.

You also need to determine the number of crosses you will use. So far, I have always used 3X.

On the rear wheel, the right side will have more tension than the left side, some recommend using a different cross pattern on each side. Scroll down to wheel building on this link: http://www.rexcycles.com/service-fittings/

Another approach is to use thicker spokes on the drive side - the wheel I built for me World Tourist has DH13 spokes on the drive side and SS14 spokes on the left side. Spoke tension is close to even side to side, and it is a very strong wheel.

Equipment - you have more than I do Smile All I have is a spoke wrench that fits Wheelsmith nipples (for building), a cheapy spoke wrench for taking apart wheels with non-Wheelsmith nipples (if I don't just cut all the spokes), and my home built truing stand with a dial indicator. Resonance frequency is the most accurate guage of spoke tension * , and having played musically instruments in my distant past, I can determine spoke tension pretty well by ear.

* I am a Mechanical Design Engineer, and know something about stiffness of structures.
Nigel
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#43
Ok awesome information !! Both of you to which I thank you all. Here is another question. .. By going with the 7spd deore m550 how hard is it going to be to find a decent cassette? Now if worse case scenario I have to use a different model of hubset and it would be wiser for me then do say so!
Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
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#44
(08-12-2012, 01:55 AM)Bill Wrote:  Ok awesome information !! Both of you to which I thank you all. Here is another question. .. By going with the 7spd deore m550 how hard is it going to be to find a decent cassette? Now if worse case scenario I have to use a different model of hubset and it would be wiser for me then do say so!

No problem finding 7 speed cassettes. Do you want close ratio or wide ratio?

Close ratio: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DNP-EPOCH-HYPERFLO-7-Spd-Bike-Cassette-Free-13-23t-NEW-/380457735251?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58950c5453
this is what I have on my SR Sierra Sport currently - put around 5K miles on in it, chain (SRAM PC-830) are ready for replacement. I am also going to swap the 52/39 for a compact double 50/34 and go with a Sunrace 11-28 cassette (wide ratio).

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_4?rh=n%3A3375251%2Cn%3A%213375301%2Cn%3A2232464011%2Cn%3A3403201%2Cn​%3A3404731%2Cp_4%3ASram%2Cn%3A3404771&bbn=3404731&ie=UTF8&qid=1344745405&rnid=3404731#/ref=sr_pg_2?rh=n%3A3375251%2Cn%3A%213375301%2Cn%3A2232464011%2Cn%3A3403201%2Cn%3​A3404731%2Cn%3A3404771%2Ck%3Acassette%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_two_browse-bin%3A5112816011&page=2&bbn=3404771&keywords=cassette&ie=UTF8&qid=1344745501

I have had very good experience with Sunrace freewheels, not so good with Shimano...... The DNP cassette has been great.
Nigel
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#45
Probably wide ratio is best for me! I tried to pull up the link on the Amazon and it did not come up Sad . Wow I had no idea that Sram and DNC cassettes would intermix with Shimano Uniglide hubs?!?! I see no matter what if the hub is different from the originals the math TOTALLY changes lol Tongue.
Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
Reply
#46
(08-12-2012, 01:41 PM)Bill Wrote:  Probably wide ratio is best for me! I tried to pull up the link on the Amazon and it did not come up Sad . Wow I had no idea that Sram and DNC cassettes would intermix with Shimano Uniglide hubs?!?! I see no matter what if the hub is different from the originals the math TOTALLY changes lol Tongue.

OOPS !! http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#uniglide

I did not realize we were talking about Uniglide.

Here is what you need to change to hyperglide 7 speed:
http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-STX-RC-Acera-X-7-Speed-Freehub/dp/B001GSKU0U/

Some wide ratio hyperglide cassettes:
http://www.amazon.com/SRAM-PG730-Speed-Cassette-12-32T/dp/B000NNQJ5O/
http://www.amazon.com/SunRace-CSM63-7-Speed-Bicycle-Cassette/dp/B002G340LE/
http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-CS-HG20-Cassette-12-32t-Speed/dp/B005DTX5I2/
http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-CS-HG20-7-Speed-Cassette-12-28T/dp/B003ZM9QQY/

My knees cannot tolerate the 24 to 34 jump of the MegaRange cassettes and freewheels.

Bill; if you don't have one, you can get a 10mm allen socket from Harbor Frieght; if you decide to swap freehubs.
Nigel
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#47
10mm allen sockets

http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/sockets-ratchets/6-piece-38-drive-metric-hex-bit-socket-set-67891.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/sockets-ratchets/7-piece-38-metric-long-ball-head-hex-socket-set-67888.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/sockets-ratchets/7-piece-38-drive-metric-long-reach-hex-bit-socket-set-67890.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/sockets-ratchets/6-piece-38-metric-ball-hex-socket-set-67883.html

I used to purchase Craftsman tools, but in the past 20 years have changed almost entirely to Harbor Freight (and when we were in MN, some Menard's). I have never had a HF hand tool break - I have broken Craftsman sockets, a ½" rachet and a 5/16" flat blade screw driver - Sears replaced them no questions asked.
Nigel
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#48
Nigel is hard on tools and Sears replaced a 5/16" flatblade. I can't find a fault there!
Bill - UniGlide and HyperGlide (UG and HG) are still around but becoming more extinct by the day. IG is the the latest 'Old Stuff' and still easy to find. All SRAM and Shimano chains and cassettes are do-able here.
Wheelies don't pop themselves. (from a QBP fortune cookie)
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#49
(08-13-2012, 09:43 PM)RobAR Wrote:  Nigel is hard on tools and Sears replaced a 5/16" flatblade. ......

Smile

Thing was ground in the wrong direction, leaving valleys parallel to the tip. Should have been ground such that the valleys were perpendicular to the tip. Smile
Nigel
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#50
Lmao, those screw drivers are pretty unpredictable at times.
Anyways the biggest problem is locating a uniglide cassette rob. If I go with the m550 hubs it's gonna be big cost changing over the freehub. Probably around 88.00 including the cost of the hub set. There no cassette included Sad.
Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
Reply
#51
I thought you might have trouble with this semi-resto when you started Bill. You have entered the world of high end 7 speed shimano
components that are getting harder and harder to find by the day. I know this because late 80s to mid 90s Mtbs are my main Forte'.
what I do is, collect parts, then I come up with a plan. You came up with a plan, then started to collect parts. easier to to do with newer stuff not vintage. And quite expensive too, or settle for more used and not so perfect condition.
If I find a part I have to have for a build I cannot wimper to much about what I might pay {thats the wifes job}. I hope you do not have to bid against me on Ebay on something we both need Sad
you have to throw your balls on the table to get it sometimes for sure. I do it for fun and not so much a killer return. and only on bikes that are around 95%+ perfect paint, special, or higher end from the start. then pristine them out from there. Hoping they will never see raw dirt again. You still have my blessing though you are in for a ride!
Wait until you see my posting of the Rockhopper resto, you will hate me forever because it would seem that I am using everything you need right now including the parts I am taking off the Hopper to do the Cannondale upgrade.
Will you hate me twice? I hope not! I am not very likable as it isSmile
There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
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#52
PK - well said. I hope your wife doesn't read it, though.

Bill - outside of eBay, you're not likely to find a NOS UG cassette. Sorry. I doubt that PK and I could even source one together out of our scrap bins. SunRace doesn't even offer them anymore. IMHO, that bike doesn't warrant restoration to 'like new' condition. It's a Rider and that's all. Unless, of course, it has sentimental value. Even then, I wouldn't. Or maybe I .... nevermind.

Shimano started indexed shifting with UniGlide (UG), then developed a better one called HyperGlide (HG) and then we got InterGlide (IG). The big changes were the shape of the teeth on the cogs and slight adjustments to the chain outer plates. If you use a HG or IG cassette on that hub, no-one will ever know. Just be sure to get a $15 HG or IG compatible chain. Contrary to Shimano recomendations, they will interchange - just not in as clean of a shift. HG chain on IG cassette will be sluggish. IG chain on a HG cassette might blow your mind if you are used to UG.
Don't worry about the change up front. The key to making front shifts is all in your thumb and you'll adjust to it. That's not to say that teeth profiles on chainrings didn't change - just saying.
Wheelies don't pop themselves. (from a QBP fortune cookie)
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#53
Thanks for the backing Robar! the wife is awesome, been together for around 35 years or so. She is also like my personal assistant, makes me feel like I am a movie star!
She is very instrumental in my bicycle finds and knows my criteria quite well for someone that is not an avid cyclist like myself. She gets a kick out of comparing what they look like when they come home and what they look like when done and sold while she steals the cash!Sad
She finds them, all I do is say Yea, nay, or we better have a look.
There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
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#54
(08-11-2012, 11:44 AM)RobAR Wrote:  Hi Bill,
Follow the instructions!
http://www.miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.html is an easily read wealth of info.
Yo, Rob, your link isn't working.
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#55
Okay Jef. Try this,,, http://tourdebbq.com/
I am hungry...
That other link works for me.
Wheelies don't pop themselves. (from a QBP fortune cookie)
Reply
#56
Yes I do have a bad habit of doing that sometimes. Laying out a plan before I have everything together lmao. But with the information all have provided I do believe this will work as planned. Just little bits at a time. Wink
Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
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#57
On the wheel building: definitely check out Roger Musson's book
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
You get electronic updates when a new version comes out. I really like it.
I (as Nigel) usually build cross three and judge the tension by pitch of the spokes (I play the violin). In contrast to Nigel I use double butted DT Swiss spokes (since this is what my LBS carries).
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#58
(08-15-2012, 06:39 AM)Joe_W Wrote:  On the wheel building: definitely check out Roger Musson's book
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
You get electronic updates when a new version comes out. I really like it.
I (as Nigel) usually build cross three and judge the tension by pitch of the spokes (I play the violin). In contrast to Nigel I use double butted DT Swiss spokes (since this is what my LBS carries).

I actually already have that e-book Joe. Got it like almost 2yrs ago when you first recommended it to me Smile . Just got done reading the link that Rob posted. Also have the spocalc downloaded from sheldon's site as well checking out the other ones too. This I do know, MOST MTB hubs are 135mm and Roadies are 130mm! Any MTB wheel (that has the correct hub spacing can be made to fit any MTB! Of course depends on how much patience the wheel builder has Wink .
Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
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#59
(08-15-2012, 12:02 PM)Bill Wrote:  ...... Any MTB wheel (that has the correct hub spacing can be made to fit any MTB! ........

NOT always. Very early MTB had 127mm, later 130mm OLD - shoving a 135mm in there is not going to work without some frame spreading. Those early MTB had thick wall CrMo tubing, and spreading is not trivial. My SR Sierra Sport is one of those. 130mm fits with some effort. 135mm would require cold setting the frame.

ALWAYS measure twice for cutting - or in this case getting a rear hub for a particular frame. Especially a used frame - some one may have cold set it.
Nigel
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#60
In case it has a 130mm rear triangle, go with a road hub. I have a Tiagra rear hub in my cyclocross bike, I need to clean and regrease it regularly because I ride it in rain / ankle deep mud when training or racing cross duathlons. Road hubs are less well sealed and not built for really heavy off-road (ab)use...
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