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Two more tire repair questions
#1
Friend of mine says that repairing a tube should only be considered a temporary fix and that it is pretty much a waste of time since patching is generally ineffective. I tend to agree with him. How about you?

Same guy says that when he has a tire go flat, he leaves the old tube in the tire to act as a protective liner. I'm not sure if he meant to have the old tube against the outer circumference of the tire to be a barrier, or to poke a hole in the old tube and put the new tube on top of it so that the old tube is an additional lining to protect the tube from touching the rim. Also, seems to me that this might add some weight to the tire in the worst possible place? Or would that matter? I know that in triathlons, his swimming and running times are excellent, but his bicycle times are quite poor. Maybe that is why?

One other comment about that guy.. he once did the Ironman competition in Hawaii. He had his bike shipped to Hawaii for the race. Unfortunately, the bike got "lost" by either the bike shop in Hawaii or in transit. Bye bye bike! I suspect he didn't take out additional insurance on the bike to keep the shipping charges to a minimum.
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#2
Tube Patch:
These days, yes I would have to agree that patching a tire is better for temporary fix. Now on the other hand, if one could not afford a brand new tube then patching is the way to go. Just last week I had a repair for a kid who really didn't have a lot of money and patched his 20" tube, until I come into another one for him. It is holding air in it rather well and he rides it back and forth to school everyday. I guess I can say if one does a regular commute and they can successfully patch the hole then fine. If you are an all out sports bicyclist or Ramp Jumper carry an extra tube.

Protective liner:
I really never heard that one before. As far as the weight issue you said his bicycle times were bad, so that maybe a possible. Now here is a thought, if the tape that lines the tube away from the spoke ends is not very good, one could take the old tube and trim it to become the new liner. Don't know about triathlons so I'm no expert there.
Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
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#3
Tube patch:
I know several people who mostly patch their tubes and commute every day (on the road they exchange the tube and patch it at home). The patches hold, so they are doing something correct. My patches don't hold that well, this can be explained by me being impatient and the tubes being 700x23, so the patches are too large and have to be bent around the tyre when patching.

Protective liner:
Heard something like that before. Usually they leave the tube facing the outside of the tyre, protecting from road debris, thorns, metal strands etc.. Might work. However: on a road bike , I just cannot see how to fit the additional tube in the narrow tyre. Leaving it on the rim tape: I consider this to be even dangerous! The tyre might not sit correctly on the rim and could roll of in a corner. If this happens on the front wheel, you're screwed. A correctly seated rime tape should be better.

Also, this adds weight and quite some moment of inertia (due to the weight being added far away from the center of rotation). However, in a triathlon, weight is not the major issue (if the road leg is more or less flat). You don't have to climb exceptionally fast and you don't have to sprint, your main concern is air drag (that's why they use these special bikes). On the other hand, you wrote he got a slot for Kona, so his bike split cannot be that slow... (unless he is an exceptional runner)
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#4
No problem with patching if done properly. A proper patch should "vulcanise" to the tube to become part of it. Yes a narrow tube is sometimes awkward. I always carry 2 spare tubes and then mend the puncture at home. ( I also carry some instant patches but have never had need to use them.)

If I go on a ride away from home I take a puncture repair outfit with me as well. 3 patches and then I bin the tube. If the puncture means patching over a seam then that can be very awkward to seal properly.
I have even read of people using an old tire inside as a puncture protection. They cut off the bead and place the carcass between the tube and new tire. Obviously this increases the weight but may give the extra protection?
[font=Trebuchet MS]Ride hard or ride home alone![/font]
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#5
Well, I'd just go with a tyre that has a kevlar belt inside. This is most probably much lighter...

I also found the website with the resistance data and explanations: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/...
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#6
A patch, put on properly, will hold well for years. But you do have to get the tube very clean first, allow time for the glue to dry, etc. All stuff that might be hard to do on the side of the road. I'm with cyclerUK, carry a spare and patch the bad one at home.

For super narrow or high pressure tires, maybe I wouldn't use a patch.

Putting the old tube in the tire as extra protection will help some. I assume they mean they put it on the tread side, not to cover the spoke ends. I'd only do this on a large tire like a mtn bike. Too much risk of it creating a bump or making it hard to seat the tire on a road bike. This is the equivalent of a "thorn proof" tube which just has thicker rubber on the road side. That will stop something small. "Tire liners" work better as they are a kevlar strip that will stop sharper stuff than the extra thick tubes will. These are similar to the strip that comes built into a "kevlar belted" tire. But you don't have to throw it out when the tire wears out. Tire liners are great for mtn tires. But on road bike, I use belted tires. The liners are stiff and the edges can actually give you a flat over time on a really high pressure tire.
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#7
The guy I knew did get a Kona slot, and was in fantastic shape, however his completion time was embarrassing. In fact, about a year after that disappointment, he gave up on triathlons altogether, started doping on steroids to put on what he calls muscle, and now looks like a bloated fool who is probably going to give himself a heart attack with his cocktail of injections. Its ironic that some people who put such effort into being physically fit wind up destroying themselves.

When I rode a bike to school as a child, I got flat tires almost weekly. I suspect that some pranksters were dropping tacks, etc. around the school's bike compound. I used to have tires with up to half a dozen patches on them and had to pump the tires up every day. Now I have an adopted 19 year old sister, and my dad just bought her a 2006 Mistubishi GLX car - and she says it's ugly and refuses to drive it! Why when I was a kid...heh Only car I ever got from parents was a Ford Pinto which was a death machine that would spin out of control even on dry roads making casual turns.
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#8
Since this thread is on tube repair, here is one. Which type of patch is better or is it the same? The patch that needs the rubber cement or the one without? Are they both good?

Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
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#9
My coworker has achieved good results with the Park self adhesive patches: in contrast to other self adhesive patches they stretch at least a bit, so that nothing weird happens when inflating / deflating the tyre. I used the normal patches quite a lot, a well done patch will last basically forever. Self adhesives are easier (and faster) to apply, I don't know how long they last, though. I no longer patch, since I almost exclusively ride my road bike and patching a narrow tube is very difficult (for me). However, I carry a spare and a set of self adhesive patches.
It also seems to me that I got flat tyres a lot more when I still went to school. I think this might be due to the improved tyres we have nowadays. I even own a set of quite puncture resistant road tyres (Schwalbe Blizzard), they are "slow", but I never had a puncture with them, though the tyre has a many cuts.

Also sorry for posting the rolling resistance info in the wrong thread. I just saw that. Not enough coffee...
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#10
That is good to hear. Just got some the other day and was wandering if they were worth the effort. Was also thinking that per say there was no luck with them I could always add adhesive lol.

P.S. Great information on above from all thanks. Smile
Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
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#11
I can't imagine a patch lasting for years.. since I haven't had tubes themselves last for years.

From my patching experience, I have had better luck with self-adhesive patches that were already cut to size. My theory on this is that when you cut a patch, the edges of the patch get crushed / stretched / deformed on a microscopic level - kind of like when cutting leaves and the edges oxidize and bruise. When this happens, the glue doesn't adhere as well as it should, and the edges begin to have a lamelear tear which is when a tiny tear grows into a bigger one when stress is applied. Patches that are already the right size are punched out in a professional manner that makes a clean, undamaged cut edge.

I still am puzzled and disturbed about that tube I bought bursting at 90 psi when it was stamped mx pressure 80 psi. Seems to me that it should have been able to take the 90 psi at least until the point when the tire was put back on the bike and ridden over a bump.
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#12
Tubes will generally last until the rubber starts to degrade, and that is strongly impacted by conditions it's stored in. Exposure to UV light, ozone, solvent fumes, etc will shorten the lifespan of a tube or tire dramatically. But I've seen patches and tubes last decades.

I've never had great luck with the glueless patches, though some people swear by them. Note that I don't think you can put glue on these to make them stronger or anything. They use a different type of adhesive.

@jdohe - I doubt your tire blew "because" you pumped it up to 90psi. It either wasn't seated on the rim right, the sidewall failed due to a defect, there's a burr or unprotected spoke end inside the rim that popped the tube, etc. The listing on the tire tells you what pressure the body of the tire can handle under normal conditions and every manufacturer lists a much lower pressure than the tire is really capable of handling. But tires don't normally pop because the tire itself fails, but because they slip off the rim. Super high pressure tires are generally made to fit onto a rim tighter. But rim diameters also vary even when they are the same "size". If a tire slips onto a rim real easy, you know you have a "loose" combination of tire and rim. You need to be extra careful that the tire is seated right or it is easy to blow it off the rim at high pressures.
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#13
I have patched tires before and never had any trouble out of them. Heck when I was a kid ok so I am old now we did not have a lot of money so my dad always fixed my tire for me with a patch. No telling how many miles I put on my bike after he fixed it for me they never did come unglued. I have tubes that are 7 years old and still holding air good in them. I always use the glue kind of patch and have never seen a need for the other.
My dad always told me a Sledge a matic can fix any thing.
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