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Pedal, but no movement

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VJAB Offline
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South London
Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #1
Pedal, but no movement
Hi all,

I've got a Pinnacle road bike and has served me well for 4 years now. But it broke a few months back and has been dusting over. You can pedal on the bike, but it just doesn't move. I've been told it's my hub that needs to be changed, but i want to hear it from someone else other than a bike repair shop. I'd love to be able to do it myself, as i want to maintain my bike and avoid always having to bring it to a shop whenever i have a problem.

Heres a link to a video i took to show what happens;

You can see that the pedal just goes round and round and then it will hook on randomly and you'll be able to pedal properly, until it loses it again after a second.

If anyone could help, it would be awesome!

Cheers,

-Vince
Jul 23, 2010 09:50 AM
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GeorgeET Offline
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Venice Beach, CA
Posts: 1,139
Joined: Apr 2010
Post: #2
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Cannot tell much until you take the wheel off and see whats going on. Mental gymnastics are inadequate.

If its a freewheel the cluster needs reinstalling on the threaded hub and use blue loctite thread locker to secure it. Most likely however its a newer bike with a cassette mechanism thats either broken or very dirty. Unlikely to service it But possible.

http://bicycletutor.com/replace-freewheel/

http://bicycletutor.com/replace-cassette-cluster/

http://bicycletutor.com/freehub-body/

Never Give Up!!!
Jul 23, 2010 10:57 AM
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cyclerUK Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Pedal, but no movement
It appears the pawls have gone on the freehub.
You might be lucky and free them off with some release oil (WD40), but unlikely, then you would have to regrease.
You will have to remove the freehub as you don't want to get release oil in the hub bearings.

Probably though the freehub will need replacing.
As per the tutorial:-
http://bicycletutor.com/freehub-body/
as George mentions.

Ride hard or ride home alone!
Jul 23, 2010 11:44 AM
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VJAB Offline
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South London
Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #4
RE: Pedal, but no movement
(Jul 23, 2010 10:57 AM)GeorgeET Wrote:  Cannot tell much until you take the wheel off and see whats going on. Mental gymnastics are inadequate.

If its a freewheel the cluster needs reinstalling on the threaded hub and use blue loctite thread locker to secure it. Most likely however its a newer bike with a cassette mechanism thats either broken or very dirty. Unlikely to service it But possible.

http://bicycletutor.com/replace-freewheel/

http://bicycletutor.com/replace-cassette-cluster/

http://bicycletutor.com/freehub-body/

(Jul 23, 2010 11:44 AM)cyclerUK Wrote:  It appears the pawls have gone on the freehub.
You might be lucky and free them off with some release oil (WD40), but unlikely, then you would have to regrease.
You will have to remove the freehub as you don't want to get release oil in the hub bearings.

Probably though the freehub will need replacing.
As per the tutorial:-
http://bicycletutor.com/freehub-body/
as George mentions.


Thanks for the info, I'm gonna give this a go tomorrow, as i don't have the tools to try tonight!

Will let you know where i get to.

Thx,

-Vince
Jul 23, 2010 11:44 AM
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DaveM Offline
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Posts: 1,375
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Post: #5
RE: Pedal, but no movement
From the look of the bike, it is probably a cassette hub. That means you can try flushing the freehub with some lub as cyclerUK suggests. Otherwise, you may need to replace the freehub, hub, or whole wheel depending on various costs.

@GeorgeET - I'm just slightly confused why you would recommend locktighting a freewheel on. Seems to me that would just make a freewheel that is very hard to remove, but wouldn't work any differently. But maybe I'm missing what you mean.
Jul 23, 2010 03:36 PM
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GeorgeET Offline
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Venice Beach, CA
Posts: 1,139
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Post: #6
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Well if it was a freewheel and somehow it span off than Blue loctite would help secure it. ( I mentioned that most likely its a cassette)I am aware that rotation would tighten it, however have seen some get loose.The blue loctite is easily removable. Red locktite is mostly for studs and requires heat to remove.

I use the blue locktite as a extra safety item in a few vibration prone or difficult to get at spots. Mostly on motorcycles. Not so much on a bicycle. However if I find a bolt prone to looseness or small fasteners I certainly would locktite it.

Never Give Up!!!
Jul 23, 2010 07:39 PM
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VJAB Offline
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South London
Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #7
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Hey guys,

I managed to find out i do have a freewheel and it's a 'shimano hyperglide'
I can't take it off as per the 'replace freewheel' video, as it just spins around and around. Heres a video of what happens when i try to.



Thx for all your help so far guys, i feel that I'll be able to do this!!!

-Vince
Jul 24, 2010 11:24 AM
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GeorgeET Offline
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Venice Beach, CA
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Post: #8
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Hmmmm.. Looks like you are using the correct tool , does it fit the notched ring slots tightly? Or are you just spinning the gears? Make sure its engaged properly.

Is so you got a stripped hub and need a new wheel. Unusual.

Nice video BTW

Never Give Up!!!
Jul 24, 2010 11:46 AM
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cyclerUK Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Pedal, but no movement
I still think it's the pawls that have gone.
Put a chain whip on the sprockets to stop them turning backwards.
Then turn the cassette/freewheel tool counter-clockwise to see if it will undo?

Can you post a closeup photo of the center of the freewheel please?

Ride hard or ride home alone!
Jul 24, 2010 11:57 AM
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GeorgeET Offline
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Venice Beach, CA
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Post: #10
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Good point cycler UK. However I am not sure about that as I understand it. The pawls lock the wheel in the forward direction and free spin backwards. The lock nut engages the inner sleeve of the freewheel so not sure how the pawls affect this.

Take a careful look where its spinning, Is it spinning on the hub or internally. VJAB.

Ye you can try what Cycler says. I used a chain visegrip to hold the sprockets.You can try wrapping an old belt on it if you do not have a chain whip. Or ask your LBD.

Never Give Up!!!
Jul 24, 2010 12:04 PM
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VJAB Offline
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South London
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Post: #11
RE: Pedal, but no movement
(Jul 24, 2010 11:57 AM)cyclerUK Wrote:  I still think it's the pawls that have gone.
Put a chain whip on the sprockets to stop them turning backwards.
Then turn the cassette/freewheel tool counter-clockwise to see if it will undo?

Can you post a closeup photo of the center of the freewheel please?

Heres a video of me trying with the chain whip, but i didn't manage. I tried a second time too, but now my chain whip is broken as i forced to much.



Heres some photos of the center of the freewheel
   

   

(Jul 24, 2010 12:04 PM)GeorgeET Wrote:  Good point cycler UK. However I am not sure about that as I understand it. The pawls lock the wheel in the forward direction and free spin backwards. The lock nut engages the inner sleeve of the freewheel so not sure how the pawls affect this.

Take a careful look where its spinning, Is it spinning on the hub or internally. VJAB.

Ye you can try what Cycler says. I used a chain visegrip to hold the sprockets.You can try wrapping an old belt on it if you do not have a chain whip. Or ask your LBD.

Heres a video of the freewheel spinning. It seems to be spinning on its own.



-Vince
Jul 24, 2010 02:12 PM
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Bill Offline
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NY,USA
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Post: #12
RE: Pedal, but no movement
First are you using the correct freewheel/freehub tool? From the looks of your Cassette/Freewheel (not sure so I name both) it should take this tool..... http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=4&item=FR-5G which has a guide pin in it. Here is a page that has instructions, you will have to scroll down the page a little to see the part covering the FR-5G . You'll also notice in the picture there yours is VERY similar. Here is the link with the instructions http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=48 . I know you must be VERY VERY frustrated, but hang in there as there is an answer for everything Wink .

Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
Jul 24, 2010 08:26 PM
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GeorgeET Offline
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Venice Beach, CA
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Post: #13
RE: Pedal, but no movement
You have the tools so you are not a newbie at this. Interesting chain whip combo tool.Too bad it broke.

Looking at the wheel its badly corroded and clumped up big time. Suggest soaking overnight with penetrating oil like Liquid wrench or a 50/50 mixture of acetone and automatic transmission fluid which works great and trying again. Heat would be the next thing , but make sure oil is washed off so no risk of fire.

Never Give Up!!!
Jul 24, 2010 09:46 PM
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DaveM Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Just to clear up any confusion, this is an 8 speed hyperglide CASSTTE. It is not a freewheel. The ratchet mechanism is in the "freehub" which is bolted to the hub. The lockring threads into the inside of the freehub. Freehubs are usually replaceable, so if lubing it up doesn't work, you may be able to swap it. Unfortunately, I don't have any great advice in how to remove the cassette beyond what you are already doing.
Jul 25, 2010 12:49 PM
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GeorgeET Offline
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Venice Beach, CA
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Post: #15
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Right you are Dave M. Its still stucken however.

http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html

http://bicycletutor.com/freehub-body/

Never Give Up!!!
Jul 25, 2010 03:36 PM
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Bill Offline
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NY,USA
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Post: #16
RE: Pedal, but no movement
(Jul 25, 2010 12:49 PM)DaveM Wrote:  Just to clear up any confusion, this is an 8 speed hyperglide CASSTTE. It is not a freewheel. The ratchet mechanism is in the "freehub" which is bolted to the hub. The lockring threads into the inside of the freehub. Freehubs are usually replaceable, so if lubing it up doesn't work, you may be able to swap it. Unfortunately, I don't have any great advice in how to remove the cassette beyond what you are already doing.

Dave I agree with you on the correct name. Should have said that. What I am saying if that the lockring on that thing is a real bugger to take off. Park site says it, Sheldon said it, and just about everyone else too. Note on it 40nm. Quite a bit of torque and who knows how much more it is going to take to POP it to the unlock position. The vise idea is not an option. Reason is it just turns and turns. Best way is to get another chain whip tool (think he said he broke the current one), use the skewer to bring the removal tool he has closer to the notches (splines) for maximum leverage or buy the FR-5G, and get something to go over whatever he is using to turn the removal tool for longer reach thus more leverage like what I call a cheater tube bar (seat post would work great). The only other option is to take it to a Local Bike Shop.

Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
Jul 25, 2010 07:44 PM
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Bill Offline
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NY,USA
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Post: #17
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Also wanted to add try changing having someone else hold the chainwhip in place while you operate the other. Use your body weight if you have to.

Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
Jul 25, 2010 07:55 PM
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cyclerUK Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Thanks for the video and cassette photo.

Tips for removing the cassette.
Don't press down on the wheel as in the video. (Likely to damage the wheel or spokes.)
Lie the wheel down on a bench or secure in a vice.
Put the whip and the cassette spanner closer together in a "^" and squeeze the two together.
This will give more force.
You could extend the allen key by putting a tube over it.

It will only be brute force that will undo the cassette lockring.
Try not to damage the cassette though.

If you are still struggling then try your LBS ????

Ride hard or ride home alone!
Jul 26, 2010 12:49 AM
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VJAB Offline
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South London
Posts: 7
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Post: #19
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Hey guys,

Thx so much for all your input, I've learnt so much in the process! I took the chain whip i broke back down to the store i bought it from and they gave me a new one to replace it. The guy also told me to bring down my wheel and he'll take a look at it. I did so and he took the cassette off using the method you guys told me (which i tried too as well) he said so himself it was really stiff, but he had a much longer tool to use. He went on to tell me that my '8 speed freehub body' needs to be changed as its broken. I'd like to know if this is true, as he didn't even open it up to see if it was and it looks fine from the outside to me.

Take a look at the pic and vid of it and tell me what you think guys?

   

   



-Vince
Jul 26, 2010 11:27 AM
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DaveM Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Pedal, but no movement
Well, if the freehub can spin clockwise, it's pretty much "broken" by definition. You don't have to look inside it to see that.

You can try flushing it with lube to see if it will free up the pawls and fix it. Shops generally push replacing parts over tinkering around because labor is expensive and they don't want to guarantee a 'fix' on an old part that may go out again shortly. I've come across bad and dishonest mechanics in my day. But it sounds like the guy you are talking to is at least fairly straightforward.
Jul 26, 2010 01:20 PM
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