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Broken spokes
#1
I have (2) spokes that need to be replaced and they are on the drive side of the rim,..I attached some pics to ask you what tool do I need to remove the drive cogs (free wheel). I saw a tool,...a FR-1, 12 splines, 23mm,...But I don't know what 23mm size pertains to. Unless there is a different way to remove,..thanks in advance.
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#2
that tool should do the job even without removing the axle as shown in the picture. Nashbar has one I like just as well as the park tool. not sure where you get the 23mm but it could just be the nut size of the tool
There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
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#3
(10-15-2011, 02:03 AM)painkiller Wrote:  that tool should do the job even without removing the axle as shown in the picture. Nashbar has one I like just as well as the park tool. not sure where you get the 23mm but it could just be the nut size of the tool

Cool,..I was thinking the same,..so I just purchased an F-1 from Amazon,..now as far as the spoke,...just take the broken one to a bike shop for matching?
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#4
that would be correct. however, not knowing how much you ride, what type of spokes or quality of wheel you have. likely you will have another failure soon. Spokes can be like shoe strings as in when one breaks the others are not far behind. With two broke this may be case for you also.
Should another spoke fail replace them all or replace the wheel to help assure dependability
There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
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#5
when you have the block removed and the new spokes ready to fit, you need to replace the axle before you can carry out the necessary trueing of the wheel. It is very important that you refit the axle exactly as it was before, with the same spacing both sides, and the most important thing, ensure that the right (drive) side locknuts are very tight, otherwise the cone will screw itself into the bearings and ruin the hub.
There are many posts re this on here, but if you are at all doubtful about your ability to do this, get it done professionally, it isn't a beginners job.
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#6
(10-15-2011, 04:32 PM)trevgbb Wrote:  There are many posts re this on here, but if you are at all doubtful about your ability to do this, get it done professionally, it isn't a beginners job.
Or if you are close to one of us; we can assist.
Nigel
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#7
(10-15-2011, 11:35 PM)nfmisso Wrote:  
(10-15-2011, 04:32 PM)trevgbb Wrote:  There are many posts re this on here, but if you are at all doubtful about your ability to do this, get it done professionally, it isn't a beginners job.
Or if you are close to one of us; we can assist.

Oh, thanks, but I'm always up for the challenge (an ex auto mechanic 30 years), but bicycles are now my interest... with the right tools and info, anything is possible. thanks again.
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#8
To do a wheel; you will need some sort of trueing stand. Some people can just use the bike frame (upside) down, some need a proper trueing stand. I am somewhere in the middle, and built my own:
http://forums.bicycletutor.com/thread-3155.html

Given that you have had two spokes go, you should replace them all, as more will fail soon. It is easiest to replace them one at a time. I like Wheelsmith spokes, and there are other good ones out there. Make sure you get stainless steel spokes, they are slightly magnetic near the bends and other forming. The other common spoke material is called UCP, and is very magnetic all over. The stainless spokes are about 5X stronger than UCP. Nickel plated brass nipples are much easier to work with than alloy.

A good spoke wrench is more important than one would think - I like Park, after trying a few others.

Generally, the spokes on the rear wheel are different lengths on each side. On front wheels without disc brakes or something else that causes an offset, they are usually the same length on both sides.

Lubricate the holes in the hub or the buttend of the spokes, and the nipples (inside and out) before threading the spoke. I use a very light oil that has a lot of solvent in it which leaves are very thin lubricious layer. It was in the bike section at Wal-mart.

To get the freewheel off, you need a FR-1 tool. There are many options out there, I have a cheap one, works fine. I use a large bench vice to hold the tool (on a very heavy bench). It is easiest if the tire is still on the rim, and fully inflated. Make sure you turn the wheel the correct way. I end up looking at it for awhile, considering which way the chain will pull the freewheel while I am riding, then crank on it in the opposite direction. It will take 100+ ft-lbs to get the freewheel off; which if you go in the wrong direction can wreck things.

Once you get the freewheel off, you should clean out the hub. Replace the bearings with new balls; usually ¼" in rear wheels, but measure. Check the condition of the cones on the spindle, and in the hub visually. If the ones in the hub are shot - new hub in most cases, cones on the spindle are replaceable. I use boat trailer wheel bearing grease in the hubs, bottom bracket and headset - inexpensive, water resistant and lasts. Once you get the wheel so that it spins smoothly and for a long time, you are ready to work on the spokes.
Nigel
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#9
(10-16-2011, 03:25 PM)nfmisso Wrote:  To do a wheel; you will need some sort of trueing stand. Some people can just use the bike frame (upside) down, some need a proper trueing stand. I am somewhere in the middle, and built my own:
http://forums.bicycletutor.com/thread-3155.html

Given that you have had two spokes go, you should replace them all, as more will fail soon. It is easiest to replace them one at a time. I like Wheelsmith spokes, and there are other good ones out there. Make sure you get stainless steel spokes, they are slightly magnetic near the bends and other forming. The other common spoke material is called UCP, and is very magnetic all over. The stainless spokes are about 5X stronger than UCP. Nickel plated brass nipples are much easier to work with than alloy.

A good spoke wrench is more important than one would think - I like Park, after trying a few others.

Generally, the spokes on the rear wheel are different lengths on each side. On front wheels without disc brakes or something else that causes an offset, they are usually the same length on both sides.

Lubricate the holes in the hub or the buttend of the spokes, and the nipples (inside and out) before threading the spoke. I use a very light oil that has a lot of solvent in it which leaves are very thin lubricious layer. It was in the bike section at Wal-mart.

To get the freewheel off, you need a FR-1 tool. There are many options out there, I have a cheap one, works fine. I use a large bench vice to hold the tool (on a very heavy bench). It is easiest if the tire is still on the rim, and fully inflated. Make sure you turn the wheel the correct way. I end up looking at it for awhile, considering which way the chain will pull the freewheel while I am riding, then crank on it in the opposite direction. It will take 100+ ft-lbs to get the freewheel off; which if you go in the wrong direction can wreck things.

Once you get the freewheel off, you should clean out the hub. Replace the bearings with new balls; usually ¼" in rear wheels, but measure. Check the condition of the cones on the spindle, and in the hub visually. If the ones in the hub are shot - new hub in most cases, cones on the spindle are replaceable. I use boat trailer wheel bearing grease in the hubs, bottom bracket and headset - inexpensive, water resistant and lasts. Once you get the wheel so that it spins smoothly and for a long time, you are ready to work on the spokes.

Great info sir, I will do this in the coming days, slowly, but surely,..
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#10
Just a note about getting a really tight freewheel off. If the above method won't work and the wheel starts to "bend" or twist, stand the wheel up and put a box end wrench on that FR-1 (with an axle nut installed to retain) and give the wrench a good knock with your largest wooden mallet. That FR-1 is a 1" if I remember correctly. Also works best if the tire is still in place and inflated.

I often re-use spokes salvaged from junk bikes, and that works OK for me.

If you missed my earlier post, it shows a truing stand that I made.......

Post #7..

http://forums.bicycletutor.com/thread-3462.html
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#11
I only reuse spokes that come from "trusted wheels" = wheels assembled by somebody who knows what he (or she) is doing... spokes are cheap (I like DT double butted spokes, called DT competition I think, any other decent brand like Wheelsmith or Sapim is ok).

I can also recommend the wheelbuilding handbook by Roger Musson, it covers everything you need to know. http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php electronic form only, but with free updates.

I cannot stress the importance of a good spoke wrench enough. I have a Spokey-style one (dunno if it is a "real" one...), it grabs the nipple on all four sides (like the Park tool SW-40 also does). Oiling the threads is very important, so I mention it again.
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#12
I got the FR-1 today and everything went well removing the freewheel, so I'm going tomorrow to match the spoke, after installing the spokes, theoretically I should only have to adjust the replaced spokes to true the wheel (rim) and not the others?
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#13
If the wheel was well tensioned, the rim did not acquire any additional flat spots etc you should be ok with just tightening the replaced spokes. Especially the first point can be problematic: a poorly built wheel has to be retensioned completely. Spoke breakage is usually a sign of a poor build (or on the drive side caused by The Dreaded Chain Drop).
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#14
(10-20-2011, 05:19 AM)pachuco2 Wrote:  I got the FR-1 today and everything went well removing the freewheel, so I'm going tomorrow to match the spoke, after installing the spokes, theoretically I should only have to adjust the replaced spokes to true the wheel (rim) and not the others?

You will have more (all) spokes fail shortly, best to replace them all now. You will be replacing another one in a few days anyway, then another.......

The wheel should be properly trued, adjusting all of the spokes.
Nigel
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#15
Basically that's what I meant with "spoke breakage is [usually] a sign of a bad build". You should check if those spokes were damaged: I had a (used) rear wheel where the previous owner had one (or: quite many) The Dreaded Chain Drops, so the spoke on the drive side were damaged (they looked really like some big (metal eating) dog had chewed on them). After replacing all (inside, drive-side) of them (and tensioning / truing the wheel) no more problems.
Oh, if you really plan on replacing all spokes: check rim for wear. Might as well do the whole thing and throw that out, too. Rims are consumables (unlike spokes and hubs).

Yea, but of course Nigel is right: if the build was not that great to begin with (spoke tension uneven, spokes not properly stress-relieved -> fatigue breakage at elbow) you have to redo all of it. [@Nigel: is fatigue the correct term? I'm not a native speaker etc.]
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#16
(10-21-2011, 12:51 PM)Joe_W Wrote:  [@Nigel: is fatigue the correct term? I'm not a native speaker etc.]
Yes.
Nigel
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