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Help with identifying these old parts...
#1
Hi all, I'm renovating a friends old Puch Buckingham road bike and it needs (so far) a new rear wheel hub axle and a new bottom bracket. I've taken a photo of the parts along with size information and I need help sourcing suitable replacments, or similar parts that will work in their place for example could I use a modern sealed cartridge bottom bracket, maybe? please help if you can!
(please note my measurements are approximate give or take a mm or so)

[Image: shhaeffe46i2va2h8dt.jpg]
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#2
Check this thread for BB info. Yes you can replace it with a sealed one. Parts to rebuild old one are just not available. You need to measure BB with and ID. OR just bring the set with you to a local bike store and have them match it. You know the axle is 127mm close will work.

They may have axle too. It is kind of strange. What kind of rear drive is it?

http://forums.bicycletutor.com/thread-3756.html
Never Give Up!!!
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#3
(12-02-2011, 04:08 AM)GeorgeET Wrote:  Check this thread for BB info. Yes you can replace it with a sealed one. Parts to rebuild old one are just not available. .....

George, George !!! Not true; all the components to rebuild the BB are available on Amazon.

For example: http://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Bottom-Bracket-Axle-127-5/dp/B000BMRSS4/

Personally; I like the old fashion cone and cup bottom bracket because it easily serviceable, and with loose bearings it is stronger and stiffer than the modern sealed units. If it is kept greased, it will last forever.

What is the thread diameter and pitch on the axle? Amazon also has axles listed; like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Wheels-Manufacturing-RR-Axle-174mm/dp/B001AYS5FC/
Nigel
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#4
Good links Nigel you search well.

I just finished rebuilding the wheel hubs and BB on a 85 Fuji del Rey and I just could not find much to fit. Took a long time going through lots of parts boxes and LBS. Getting cones and seals for wheel was hard, and than I searched through a whole box of axle nuts and could not find any to fit my wheel. So many different threads, amazing. Never knew that. Next time I'll just get new wheels.

The BB maybe more standard , not sure, I found it was easier just to put a modern sealed BB in than search for parts especially the lock ring that got trashed, no one locally had one. That pyramid bb set may have done the job. Not sure of quality, and do not know if threads would match. The Shimano UN54 BB I used I got at a LBS just around the corner. :-)). I wanted to ride not look for parts.
Never Give Up!!!
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#5
Hi all,

I can imagine finding a cartridge BB that fits would be a nightmare, so I went ahead and bought the traditional replacment, right here http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004XVPJIA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A1HZ5FPD8FVC3N

I live in UK, you see, but indeed impressive search skills George, well done thanks. I wouldn't of found that raleigh BB axle unless I used "127.5mm" in my google search!

I think I'll just buy a normal 175mm axle and grind 3mm off each side. What is the purpose of the grove running three quarters the way down the legnth of the thread either side of the current (broken) axle??
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#6
(12-02-2011, 11:17 AM)d3v Wrote:  ..... What is the purpose of the grove running three quarters the way down the legnth of the thread either side of the current (broken) axle??

Probably for some sort of anti-rotation washer; some designs have a anti-rotation washer than goes against the cone to prevent it rotating when you torque the locking nut, thus theoretically you can do the job with one wrench instead of two (second one holds the cone while you torque the lock nut).

The anti-rotation washer has a little tange on its inner diameter that fits in the slot.
Nigel
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#7
Its Nigel with the search engine, man you must look at catalogs all day.:-))

It always helps to know where you are d3v as local info may be more useful.
Never Give Up!!!
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#8
(12-03-2011, 05:52 AM)GeorgeET Wrote:  Its Nigel with the search engine, man you must look at catalogs all day.:-))

It always helps to know where you are d3v as local info may be more useful.

I don't look at catalogues all day Smile

On the SR Sierra Sport, I stayed with the cup and cone bottom bracket, and researched what was available then.

One of my mum's positions before I was born was like a technical librarian at Phillips - mid 1950's long before the 'net. I inherited those genes of finding information very quickly Smile
Nigel
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#9
One of my mum's positions before I was born was like a technical librarian at Phillips - mid 1950's long before the 'net. I inherited those genes of finding information very quickly
Nigel

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ye and you are an engineer . I remember the research you did when you build your wheels and the bikes.

Well maybe next time I rebuild my wheels I'll get your help in finding the right parts. :-))
Could not believe that after trying close to a hundred used axle nuts none fit my axle. I must have a one of a kind on the Fuji. Found cones that fit but than had to rehash the seals, I used hardware store o-rings.. Good thing I do not get paid by the hour.
Never Give Up!!!
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#10
George; you may want to consider getting these:
http://www.amazon.com/Vermont-American-21938-Metric-Thread/dp/B000FK74P4/
http://www.amazon.com/Vermont-American-21939-Thread-Gauge/dp/B0014DKJA8/

Smile
Nigel
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#11
Ye thanks I actually have a thread gauge and lots of tools from maintaining my own motorcycles for 40+ years. Including some very high end machinist measuring tools that I got from my father....Great for rebuilding engines.

But finding the right nut is something else. I usually just take the part with me and try them out to find the right one, My hardware store has an aisle full of nut and bolt drawers. Usually I find the right one. But the axle nuts were very strange thread. I reused the original ones. I spend lots of time there looking for pieces that cost under a buck. :-))

I suppose if I really had no choice than more search might have worked.
Never Give Up!!!
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#12
Hey the new bottom bracket arrived, thanks to George I don't think I would of found one!

Now I'm having major trouble removing that 35mm lock ring using the park tool HCW-4 wrench. It is truly stuck on. And yes before someone points it out - I know it's a left-hand thread!

I've tried two heavy sprays of wd40 aimed from all directions, and left overnight, but this has not helped, infact my brand new park tool HCW-4 is badly damaged from all the slipping.

Any tips!?!
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#13
my dad always used a chisel and hammer on the lock ring.....

I have been fortunate that the HCW wrench with a little persuasion worked.
Nigel
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#14
Yes I will try again with the copper hammer, but I never really give it a good smack for fear of the wrench violently slipping off. The lock ring's width is half that of the HCW-4 wrench which is ridiculous!
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#15
Hey I have done it!

I actually used my headfork cup remover inside the bottom bracket to smack the stuck lockring from the inside, then tapped it from all directions using an old heavy duty screwdriver/mallet and then I was finally able to unthread it off using not my expensive new HCW-4, but a standard adjustable wrench.

Never thought park tool made crap tools! I began to think the lockring was some rare one-off size that the HCW-4 was not designed for, but it measured out at 35mm, which is what the HCW-4 is designed to fit!
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#16
Just finished the bottom bracket service, FINALLY! Was kind of fun having to play with the cup and lockring to get just the right freedom of movement without the play, however I could not completely eliminate a very slight sideward microplay of the new BB axle so maybe it is a little thinner than the old one.
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#17
(12-06-2011, 08:16 PM)d3v Wrote:  Just finished the bottom bracket service, FINALLY! Was kind of fun having to play with the cup and lockring to get just the right freedom of movement without the play, however I could not completely eliminate a very slight sideward microplay of the new BB axle so maybe it is a little thinner than the old one.

I have said it before and say it again, use a large enough pipe wrench to take off stubborn lockrings. you won't take the chance of chiseling your frame or paint job and it offers fantastic leverage. plus it is easier to replace the lockring should you damage it. do not knock it til you tried it
There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
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#18
Been away for a few days.

Glad you got your BB fixed. I always spray a penetrating oil on old parts the night before working on them . Liquid wrench works a lot better than WD , there are even better ones but I wont get into that. Heating with a butane torch helps too, but do not heat painted parts.
The lock rings are a PITA when stock and the wrench does not hold well.
Pipe wrench as PK pointed out works OK, just be careful not to catch the BB frame.

There are some DIY tools you can make to hold the lock ring wrench in place in hopes of not mangling it.

You can use a threaded rod bout 6" with large washers (bigger than the BB OD) and a nut on either side. Feed through BB and tighten lightly so that the washers will keep the wrench snug and keep it from spinning off than hold the wrench tight and give a sharp tap or more with a hammer.. Some grease on the opposite side washer may help it to rotate.
Never Give Up!!!
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#19
Ah a pipe wrench... I have one, but never thought to use it, instead I just used a normal adjustable wrench... and the threaded rod/washer idea is ingenius, and that reminds me I must finish my DIY headset cup press, just need one more brass fitting and it will be complete!

I have bad experiences using my blow torch to contract bicycle parts. I used to heat the bottom bracket axle so that the crank arms would fit tighter, but after just a few rides the brand new bottom bracket was worn. The heat must of wrecked the grease inside the sealed cartridge or something!

But as for the original topic subject, I have realized I cannot seem to achieve the sweet spot with this bottom bracket. After fitting the crank arms there was some horribly play, and no amount of tuning the cup/lockring pressure seems to fix this, unless I overly tighten the BB cups which does eliminate the crank arm play, but obviously wears the BB out prematurely. Any advice on tuning for the "sweet spot" is appreciated!
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#20
First of all, never heat pre greased parts at installation. The grease will melt . Only for removal of rusted parts, or installation of races.

AS per your side to side play, strange. What exactly did you put back in there? Are your bearings the right size?

IMO lots of grease tighten till no play and ride to see if it breaks in. Redjust as needed.
Never Give Up!!!
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