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Sram shifter & derailleur and noname sprockets
#1
Hi everybody,

I am new to bicycles and new around here.

I have an old noname bicycle, with a 6 speed rear cassette. as the old derailleur broke, I had to change it with a new one. I asked one shop guide for a derailleur and shifters and he recommended an sram x3, with 6 speeds. This is where the disaster started!!

So, i watched all tutorials for adjustments. Did all the steps but I cannot make the derailleur go through all the sprockets. If I tighten the barrel, it goes to high speeds but does not change more than two speeds down to smaller sprockets and viceversa. I understand that the cassette has to be suited to the derailleur, but found it out too late! And guess what? There are no 6 speed sram cassettes on the market. What should I do? I do not want to replace all, from cassette to derailleur and shifter, as it doesn't worth the money.

Any help is highly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!
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#2
Hi Lee and welcome to BT.
Your 6 spd cluster is most likely a freewheel and not a cassette.
I'm guessing that you're seeing 'X-3' on the rear drlr? If so, we're good there (for now).
Now to the shifter - I don't know of an X-3 shifter designed for 6 spd. If your shifter has more than 6 detents, it won't work correctly. The only 6 spd shifter in SRAMs current production is the MRX Comp. Is that what you bought?
If so, that's not good. The MRX shifters are designed to work with Shimano rear drlrs. Don't you just love it?!! Smile
If all the above is correct, you'll need to exchange that X-3 rear drlr for a Shimano Tourney.

I hope this helps.
Rob
Wheelies don't pop themselves. (from a QBP fortune cookie)
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#3
(05-26-2012, 11:47 AM)RobAR Wrote:  Hi Lee and welcome to BT.
Your 6 spd cluster is most likely a freewheel and not a cassette.
I'm guessing that you're seeing 'X-3' on the rear drlr? If so, we're good there (for now).
Now to the shifter - I don't know of an X-3 shifter designed for 6 spd. If your shifter has more than 6 detents, it won't work correctly. The only 6 spd shifter in SRAMs current production is the MRX Comp. Is that what you bought?
If so, that's not good. The MRX shifters are designed to work with Shimano rear drlrs. Don't you just love it?!! Smile
If all the above is correct, you'll need to exchange that X-3 rear drlr for a Shimano Tourney.

I hope this helps.
Rob

Dear Rob,

thanks a lot for your reply.

actually I bought the 6 step shifters together with the x3 derailleur (x3 is written on the derailmeur and they were sold as a set in the same packaging). probably only a limited release as I also couldn't find it on their website in a 6 speed version.

yes, it is a sprocket set tightened in an old fashion, not a cassette.

maybe the sprockets are bad for it? they are 2,95 milimeers all set (measured with a caliper from the back of the largest sprocket to the back of the smallest).
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#4
Okay, then let's start at the beginning... will your drlr move to both the large and the small cogs, even if you have to mess with cable tension to make it do so?
Did you replace the chain?
Does the bike have 1, 2 or 3 chainrings up front?
Wheelies don't pop themselves. (from a QBP fortune cookie)
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#5
(05-26-2012, 01:45 PM)RobAR Wrote:  Okay, then let's start at the beginning... will your drlr move to both the large and the small cogs, even if you have to mess with cable tension to make it do so?
Did you replace the chain?
Does the bike have 1, 2 or 3 chainrings up front?

yes, if I adjust the cables if covers all the cogs area.
It has three chainrings. there, the sram shifter (but not also an sram chain mover) covers all three well.

the chain is not changed, but is not worn.
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#6
these are a pair of sram shifters for a 6 speed RD, do yours look like this?
the one labeled 6 spd mounts on the R of the bars and the other on the left and the cable goes to the rear changer. not suggesting you have done it the wrong way around, but I have seen it done!!
This spec, can be found on the Sram site;
http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/W2Q0EWOZFTd1ppyZ8BkEiA1h6BwK3aZ6uo4q2BZzN50/mtime:1297962092/sites/default/files/techdocs/SL_3Comp_MRXComp_Ins_2_03_0.pdf
Assuming you have routed the cable correctly, properly threaded through the stops and not fouling anywhere, you should not have any major probs.
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#7
(05-27-2012, 04:22 PM)trevgbb Wrote:  these are a pair of sram shifters for a 6 speed RD, do yours look like this?
the one labeled 6 spd mounts on the R of the bars and the other on the left and the cable goes to the rear changer. not suggesting you have done it the wrong way around, but I have seen it done!!
This spec, can be found on the Sram site;
http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/W2Q0EWOZFTd1ppyZ8BkEiA1h6BwK3aZ6uo4q2BZzN50/mtime:1297962092/sites/default/files/techdocs/SL_3Comp_MRXComp_Ins_2_03_0.pdf
Assuming you have routed the cable correctly, properly threaded through the stops and not fouling anywhere, you should not have any major probs.

Dear Trev,

Thanks for the reply.
They are mounted correctly. My personal guess is this: since the derailleur itself can cover all the cogs, but the shifter can't move accurately from one to another, it is probably a mismatch between the cogs set (the thickness of the cogs and the distance between them) and the shifter's tightening/releasing from one speed to the other. I think that this is what Ron was trying to find out when he had asked about the derailleur movement, if it covers all cogs range even if I had to adjust the cable several times.

I measured a shimano 6 cogs set, and it has a considerably smaller total thickness than mine. maybe I should try to replace mine with that, but I heard that shimano does not work with sram. (I am totally disappointed by sram because they sell a derailleur and sifter, but no 6 cogs set for it :-( ).

What do you suggest I should do?
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#8
I have a thought (could be dangerous!) - hit this link and scroll down about 5/8 page. Look for "How Many Speeds".
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html
Read about the Super 6 fw.

Let me ask you this, lee. Were the shifters that you took off Friction or Indexed? Indexing is relatively new (25+ years) but friction are still available. Do the original shifters still work? We might be closing in on this mystery...
Wheelies don't pop themselves. (from a QBP fortune cookie)
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#9
@RobAR that also was my first thought when reading the description...

@leeview: Well, the cassettes of Shimano and SRAM are compatible. I guess the freewheel also should work. The "narrow" 6 speeds were more common later and the cog spacing is more or less standard. At that time, you could still mix stuff by all brands (Maillard, Shimano, Campagnolo) without too many surprises. Then somebody came up with indexed shifting...

... and also don't blame a company for not producing stuff that has been outdated for... I guess about two decades.
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#10
Worse case scenario ya could get some friction shifters?!
Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
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#11
(05-30-2012, 12:28 AM)RobAR Wrote:  I have a thought (could be dangerous!) - hit this link and scroll down about 5/8 page. Look for "How Many Speeds".
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html
Read about the Super 6 fw.

Let me ask you this, lee. Were the shifters that you took off Friction or Indexed? Indexing is relatively new (25+ years) but friction are still available. Do the original shifters still work? We might be closing in on this mystery...

The original shifters for the rear derailleur were indexed and very similar to the ones from sram. but, unfortunatelly I threw them out after replacing (one of them was broken, so actually this is why I replaced them and the rear derailleur).
(05-30-2012, 06:43 AM)Joe_W Wrote:  @RobAR that also was my first thought when reading the description...

@leeview: Well, the cassettes of Shimano and SRAM are compatible. I guess the freewheel also should work. The "narrow" 6 speeds were more common later and the cog spacing is more or less standard. At that time, you could still mix stuff by all brands (Maillard, Shimano, Campagnolo) without too many surprises. Then somebody came up with indexed shifting...

that's good news, I hesitated to buy a shimano 6 freewheel cogset and a new chain from Shimano. but, I measured their total thickness and it was smaller than for the ones already on the bike. probably they are anyhow closer to the sram that the noname ones, and chances to work are higher.

Quote:... and also don't blame a company for not producing stuff that has been outdated for... I guess about two decades.

Actually what I was saying was that the 6 speed shifters from sram were sold last year, so they are a recent product. but there were no 6 speed cogsets available for them, so aren't sram to blame for this? for what were the shifters and the derailleur designed if not for their own cogsets?
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#12
I am almost ready to give it up... :-(

Reason: I bought the shimano cogset and a new chain. But the old cogset was so tightened that I couldn't remove it with all the efforts. I almost even broke the key and still couldn't remove the old cogset. Anyway, the old cogset has the same thickness with the new one, so probably that is not the cause of the problem.
I also tried to adjust the derailleur cable again, but no positive results. I evaluated the derailleur hanger to see if it is bent and it doesn't look like that at all (I didn't use a tool, but looked at it from different angles)...

I am not planning to invest more money on it. Should I throw it to garbage and buy a new one?
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#13
Before you give up and throw it away, take it to a local bike shop and ask them how much they will charge to fix it. It may not cost that much, on the other hand, if it is quite a lot, it's still your decision whether to go ahead or give up on it.
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#14
Removing a freewheel without stripping the tool can be difficult. Here's a good way of doing it: Fix the tool with the quick release skewer to the hub. Then, mount wheel in a bench vice. Then, use the looong lever the rim provides and try to unscrew it. As you tighten freewheels more and more with each pedal stroke they can be really hard to remove.

The local bike shop might have some ideas to make it work... I am now running out of them. Also I don't know how the Shimano freewheel you measured was narrower than the one you now bought. Did you look at the specs / type closely?

Well, just that 6 speed stuff is still sold does not mean it has been produced recently. Some stores still sell BSOs with 7 speed freewheels (that were never a good idea to begin with, heck, even my old white heavy steel monster had a 7 speed cassette).
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#15
sometimes the only way to remove a stubborn FW, especially the old type without splines, is to dismantle it and hammer off with a chisel in the pawl slots, a little heat also helps. It is of course scrap after.
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