Bicycle TutorBicycle Tutor

Show off your bike!

Unsure of frame spacing
#1
I recently (compulsively) bought an old road bike, a Canadian made Peugeot Marsielle, but I don't know it's exact frame spacing.

I tried to follow the sheldon brown example with a ruler but I don't know if I am measuring it correctly.

I have a pic where I try to measure it with a cm ruler here: [Image: 3DAo3lY]

I used a measuring tape as well. It measured at about 5.1 inches (~130 mm) from the inner sides of the frame where I released the tire. When I look at the ruler it looks like it's slightly less than 13 cm (130 mm).

I want to know the exact size because when I took off the rear wheel I noticed a considerable gap between the 5speed freewheel and the frame. It almost looks like I am bending the frame when I tighten the rear wheel back on. I think it may be 130mm but I fear the rear wheel is compressing the frame to slightly less than that.

Does this mean I may have the wrong wheel or that the freewheel is the wrong size? I don't know if I am using the correct terminology since I have only just started reading about all this a couple of hours ago, so I apologize for any confusion.

Thank you for your help.

Edit: The wheel is 26 x 1 3/8
Reply
#2
most steel frames of that era were a bit loose for ease of fitting the wheel. Nominally it is probably 126mm, with an extra mm or two on each side. You could fit a 130mm OLD hub in there quite easily.

The freewheel has nothing to do with the OLD of the hub.

A couple places on the 'net mentioned a 27 x 1¼ wheel and tire for the Peugeot Marsielle..... Do the brake pads line up nicely with the brake surfaces on the rim?
Nigel
Reply
#3
(11-02-2013, 04:06 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  most steel frames of that era were a bit loose for ease of fitting the wheel. Nominally it is probably 126mm, with an extra mm or two on each side. You could fit a 130mm OLD hub in there quite easily.

The freewheel has nothing to do with the OLD of the hub.

A couple places on the 'net mentioned a 27 x 1¼ wheel and tire for the Peugeot Marsielle..... Do the brake pads line up nicely with the brake surfaces on the rim?

They don't seem to line up nicely. I lowered the brake pads as far as I could but they still touch a bit of the bottom of the tire. I'll be going to my LBS next week to look for new wheels.

Rear brake picture: [Image: HZ32q8y]

Can I purchase a 130mm freehub or do I have to stick with freewheel? I would like to upgrade from a 5 speed freewheel to a 7 or 8 speed freehub. I have stem shifters which I believe are friction shifters, 7 speed derailleur, and a Sakae SA SR 307 52/?? tooth crankset (possibly 110mm BCD). I am not sure about my chain size but I don't mind having to buy a new one as well.

If an 7/8 speed freehub is not possible than will a 7 speed freewheel be feasible?

Edit: added picture of rear brake.
Reply
#4
130mm free hub is feasible. You'll need a cassette. Go with an 8/9/10 speed freehub and an 8 speed cassette. You will need an 8 speed chain.
Nigel
Reply
#5
(11-02-2013, 09:13 PM)nfmisso Wrote:  130mm free hub is feasible. You'll need a cassette. Go with an 8/9/10 speed freehub and an 8 speed cassette. You will need an 8 speed chain.

Thank you for all you your help nfmisso.

I will start looking for parts and then make another post to make sure everything is compatible.
Reply
#6
(11-01-2013, 10:52 PM)Fractal Wrote:  Edit: The wheel is 26 x 1 3/8
26 x 1 3/8? That's a 584mm or 590mm right? I find tires in 26 x 1 3/8 & 26 x 1 5/8 for 590mm?!
What size wheel should he look for? 700c looks like it would need the pads moved all the way up.

Fractal, how much do you weigh?
Are you looking for a knife edge go fast tire, or some comfort, maybe in between??
Price range?
Just a rear (which would be fine)?
Black or silver?
Nigel's is right, you can get a nice 8spd cassette and chain very reasonably in the US. Sunrace is is inexpensive if you want road gearing. Where are you, Canada?
Are you looking for more hill climbing ability, more speed or just more gear selection?
Reply
#7
(11-03-2013, 01:42 AM)1FJEF Wrote:  26 x 1 3/8? That's a 584mm or 590mm right? I find tires in 26 x 1 3/8 & 26 x 1 5/8 for 590mm?!
What size wheel should he look for? 700c looks like it would need the pads moved all the way up.

Fractal, how much do you weigh?
Are you looking for a knife edge go fast tire, or some comfort, maybe in between??
Price range?
Just a rear (which would be fine)?
Black or silver?
Nigel's is right, you can get a nice 8spd cassette and chain very reasonably in the US. Sunrace is is inexpensive if you want road gearing. Where are you, Canada?
Are you looking for more hill climbing ability, more speed or just more gear selection?

I weigh around 100 lbs.
I don't mind going for 700c tires. I tried looking for a 27" wheel with an 8/9/10 speed 130 mm freehub, but I am having trouble finding one that is not a freewheel hub. I also found some wheels with a 9/10 speed 130mm freehub, but it doesn't say anything about 8 speed cassettes. Would an 8 speed work with spacers?

I ride on very different roads (some smooth and some bumpy), and occasionally a few hilled roads (some small and one long hill but not very steep), so I guess a tire which is in between speed and comfort would do fine.

I don't have a set price range but I don't want to spend too much since I am on a college student's budget. I had already planned on spending more than the initial purchase for any replacements/upgrades on the bike. I'd rather spend more to have a safe bike if need be.

Silver and both rear and front. Unless I can buy a new rear wheel and stick with the 26 x 1 3/8 front wheel?

I ride mainly around West Los Angeles, California but I want to start riding longer distances. And my old 21 speed mountain bike just wasn't cutting it, so I bought this used road bike.

Edit: I found a place that provides bicyclists with tools and stands to fix their own bicycles. So I wheel most likely be doing most of the replacing/upgrading on my own (with the exception of any jobs beyond my expertise).
Reply
#8
8, 9 and 10 speed cassettes are all the same overall width, any freehub that will fit one of the three without a spacer will fit all of the three.

Before you purchase new wheels:
* figure out what you have (OLD of the hubs, BSD of the rims, width of the rims and tire size; tire size in ISO measurements for example 37-590).
* measure how they braking surfaces are lining up with your current brakes
* measure how much clearance there is between the frame (and fork) and the current tires on the current wheels properly inflated.

It would be good if you did not spend money on something that will not fit your frame.

Jeff: 26 x 1 3/8 is either 590 or 597 - the later is Schwinn.

An early rigid frame (no suspension) mountain bike (MTB) can be made into a great road machine with just a change of tires and tube. For example a early Specialized Hard Rock; changing the tires to some high pressure (100psi) Kenda K193 Kwest 26 x 1.5 tires and suitable tubes.

Avoid suspension
Nigel
Reply
#9
(11-03-2013, 02:03 PM)nfmisso Wrote:  8, 9 and 10 speed cassettes are all the same overall width, any freehub that will fit one of the three without a spacer will fit all of the three.

Before you purchase new wheels:
* figure out what you have (OLD of the hubs, BSD of the rims, width of the rims and tire size; tire size in ISO measurements for example 37-590).
* measure how they braking surfaces are lining up with your current brakes
* measure how much clearance there is between the frame (and fork) and the current tires on the current wheels properly inflated.

It would be good if you did not spend money on something that will not fit your frame.

Jeff: 26 x 1 3/8 is either 590 or 597 - the later is Schwinn.

An early rigid frame (no suspension) mountain bike (MTB) can be made into a great road machine with just a change of tires and tube. For example a early Specialized Hard Rock; changing the tires to some high pressure (100psi) Kenda K193 Kwest 26 x 1.5 tires and suitable tubes.

Avoid suspension

My old mountain is a suspension mountain bike.

My tire size in ISO is 37-590: [Image: RHXv3TF]

I don't know where the beads are on a wheel. Is the BSD just the diameter of the rims excluding the tire?

As for clearance, where do I measure? From the middle of the tire to the fork/frame or the middle of the rim to the fork/frame?

Here are some more pictures:

Front wheel
[Image: FdKRDd7]
[Image: lYG48xz]


Rear wheel
[Image: Wv3yRrF]
[Image: wSF3HUE]
[Image: PVyfWQd]
[Image: BOv0MX3]
[Image: LfAowsz]

Edit: sorry for the large images. I tried attaching them to the post but only one picture came up.
Reply
#10
clearance, measure the gaps.

BSD is bead seat diameter - 590mm in your case.

too fit a 32-622 (700c x 32) wheel and tires, you will need more than (622-590)/2 - (37-32) = 11mm clearance between you current tire and the brake bridge and bottom of the fork - at that point the 32-622 tire will be rubbing; and you will need to adjust your brake pads (622-590)/2 = 16mm higher than they are now.
Nigel
Reply
#11
(11-04-2013, 12:09 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  clearance, measure the gaps.

BSD is bead seat diameter - 590mm in your case.

too fit a 32-622 (700c x 32) wheel and tires, you will need more than (622-590)/2 - (37-32) = 11mm clearance between you current tire and the brake bridge and bottom of the fork - at that point the 32-622 tire will be rubbing; and you will need to adjust your brake pads (622-590)/2 = 16mm higher than they are now.

Does that mean I can't switch to 700c? The clearance from the current tire and the brake bridge is larger than 11mm. I understand I would have to buy new brakes if I do acquire 700c wheels/tires.

From the bottom of the fork do you mean the fork spacing? It's around 98mm but 100mm with a little forcing.

The wheels the bike came with are not the original wheels (I probably should have mentioned this from the start; apologies for the negligence).
Reply
#12
In the case, distance from the tire to the fork at the crown - how much radial clearance is there for a larger diameter tire?

Right now, you are looking a $200- to $300- min to change to ISO622 (aka 700c).
Nigel
Reply
#13
Yeah, OK, I'm lost! Why wont a 700c rear work with those brakes? The pads are high on the 590 brake track as it is, so they would have to come up less than 16mm to hit a 622 brake track.
You buy one 700C rear wheel, 130mm OLD, listed as more than 7, less than 11 speed. 32 spoke would be OK as the rider weighs less than a German Shepherd. I still think 36 would be better if you're gonna get a little abusive though.
You leave the front alone, to save money, if you can handle the white wall look. This gives you years of use out of the front wheel as you now have a spare tire & tube.
You purchase a chain, a cassette and use , borrow or buy a chain tool, a cassette tool & a chain whip. Once the rim comes in you mount it, look at it, & decide what tube & tire you want to buy for it.
Or like nfmisso says, $200 + for 2 wheels/tubes/tires, on top of the cassette & chain money.
Reply
#14
(11-04-2013, 02:34 PM)nfmisso Wrote:  In the case, distance from the tire to the fork at the crown - how much radial clearance is there for a larger diameter tire?

Right now, you are looking a $200- to $300- min to change to ISO622 (aka 700c).

From the tire to the crown there is about 35mm of clearance.

(11-04-2013, 03:58 PM)1FJEF Wrote:  Yeah, OK, I'm lost! Why wont a 700c rear work with those brakes? The pads are high on the 590 brake track as it is, so they would have to come up less than 16mm to hit a 622 brake track.
You buy one 700C rear wheel, 130mm OLD, listed as more than 7, less than 11 speed. 32 spoke would be OK as the rider weighs less than a German Shepherd. I still think 36 would be better if you're gonna get a little abusive though.
You leave the front alone, to save money, if you can handle the white wall look. This gives you years of use out of the front wheel as you now have a spare tire & tube.
You purchase a chain, a cassette and use , borrow or buy a chain tool, a cassette tool & a chain whip. Once the rim comes in you mount it, look at it, & decide what tube & tire you want to buy for it.
Or like nfmisso says, $200 + for 2 wheels/tubes/tires, on top of the cassette & chain money.

I don't mind the white wall. I could buy the rear wheel now and replace the front wheel later (around December). I also don't mind getting the set if it's cheaper than buying separate.
Reply
#15
I was able to acquire a set of used 700c wheels. The rear wheel fits well along with the brakes.

Unfortunately the front wheel's axle diameter/width is slightly larger than my fork ends (about a mm or less).

What is the standard axle diameter/width of modern front wheels?
9 or 10 mm or more/less?

Can I file off a mm of my fork ends to fit the wheel or should I just find a new front wheel?
Reply
#16
standard today on front is 9mm for road bikes and most hybrids.

other standards include 10mm, 3/8", 14mm.

filing - maybe - if there is lots of metal there.
Nigel
Reply
#17
(11-09-2013, 01:04 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  filing - maybe - if there is lots of metal there.

Or you could file tiny narrow flats on the axle threads, chase them with a nut to clean them up, then file a tiny bit from each side of the fork drop out.
That's what I would do.
You should service the bearings on your wheel set too.
Reply
#18
If you do the axle, make sure that the flats match on both sides.

This is easiest to do if you take the axle out of the wheel; note where the cones are, take the cones and lock nuts off; then run a two pair of axle nuts in all the way and jammed together - one pair on each side, so that you can chase the threads after you are done, and use the nuts to hold the axle in your vice and keep the axle's orientation while you do the filing/grinding.
Nigel
Reply
#19
If you do the axle, make sure that the flats match on both sides.

This is easiest to do if you take the axle out of the wheel; note where the cones are, take the cones and lock nuts off; then run a two pair of axle nuts in all the way and jammed together - one pair on each side, so that you can chase the threads after you are done, and use the nuts to hold the axle in your vice and keep the axle's orientation while you do the filing/grinding.
Nigel
Reply
#20
You can use the side of the vice jaw as a guide to run the file against for accuracy, or you can even slide a washer, or a spare nut on the axle, to use as a guide while you file. You end up with a clean looking job.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Drop out spacing limey 14 5,950 05-19-2014, 06:25 PM
Last Post: limey
  What makes a frame "a good frame"? Darrenjs92ni 4 12,483 03-02-2011, 09:42 PM
Last Post: nfmisso
  Old frame to new frame component transfer gdukeman 4 9,082 11-24-2009, 08:00 AM
Last Post: Joe_W

Forum Jump:



ISSN 1918-3445 © Copyright 2007-2010 Bicycle Tutor / Privacy Policy / Created by Alex Ramon

feed