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Between Rock and Hard Place Peugeot Cones
#1
Early 1980's Peugeot -- One Owner. Solid Axle.
Hear wheel spin.

Opened it up, and learned the hard way it's loose bearings...
Cones are pitted... Axle is slightly bent.

Bought new Bearings, but No cones or axle is available from local bike shop. Normandy Hub.

Up against a rock and a hard place, this is what I did....
Used Dremel tool, polishing wheel, and jeweler's rouge, and Polished the cone..... to remove the pitting ...

New Bearings and grease, and put it all back together... and it works....

Now, I'm not looking for credit, I did what I had to do because no parts were available.... but, if you were faced with the same scenario, what would you have done??? Because Local shop was un-able to help I would like to learn from you folks...

In the meantime, I found what I hope will be a quick release Axle that looks like it will fit this hub..... Haven't taken it apart yet, will do so later this month, when the bikes are brought indoors.... If so, and I scare up the locking mechanism, then I'll switch it to this new axle.....

Thanks for any and all responses...
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#2
Finding off-brand and older model cones is difficult, can't always find by brand. There are four critical dimensions: as labeled in the pic:
A - Outside diameter. If too small will allow contaminants to penetrate, too large and it won't fit through the dust cap (though one could grind the cap larger). If the dust cap is fitted on the cone one would need an exact match in diameter.
B - Threading diameter and pitch. These must match unless one is replacing the axle as well.
C - Distance from bearing run to bottom of adjustment flat. If too small one will not be able to lock/adjust the cones properly, if too large the hub may not fit in between the fork/dropout ends (sometimes a thinner nut or thinner/no washer can resolve the problem.)
D - Bearing run diameter - should be such that on the new cone the bearings will not run too close to the edge of the conical portion.

If one meets the criteria above it does not matter what the cone is meant to fit - it will work.

Conversion to Q/R is only advisable for ease of transport - no other advantage. Axle must of course be the correct diameter and thread and at least as long as the distance between the outside locknuts plus about 5mm. If too long can be ground or cut down.
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#3
Thanks very much for that post... This will help immensely in determining if the cones on the quick release axle is in fact compatible with the Normandy Hub's existing solid/slightly bent axle & cones...

I just received the spring locks for the Quick Release axle, and it looks like it will work.... Once the riding season is over here and I get the bikes in the basement, I'll be able to continue on...
My Wife rides my mother's 1970 Gitane, and with exception of the crank (Cottered) the parts seem to be the same between the two... Gitane & Peugeot....

I certainly have my work cut out for this winter!!
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#4
Cones for old bikes are very hard to find. There were so many different threads and sizes. Overall the thread is the most important. If you can screw it on you can usually make it work.

I did a wheel rebuild on my 85 Fuji and it took a lot of looking around to find cones. For my other bike I went through a box of axle nuts and could not find any to fit the solid axle rear, so I am using the old ones. No standards everyone had their own set up.

Next time I'll just buy new wheels with sealed bearings. That's what I would do.

Bolt on axles are more theft proof.........

As for axles etc check ebay lots of choices.
Never Give Up!!!
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#5
I am with George; replace with cartridge bearing hubs, Wheelsmith spokes and Velocity rims.
Nigel
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#6
...if one can take the drain on the bank account, that is.
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#7
I forgot to mention that new axle kits are available that have the axle, cones, and lock nuts. That may be easier to find than cones.
Never Give Up!!!
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#8
I'm not aware of that... Can you post a link?

The hollow 9mmx1mm axle I bought appears to be correct, but I won't know for certain for a couple weeks.... When I start in..... I've measured the cone of what I purchased, but need to measure the cone of what I have to be certain I'm ok....

I did find a link to cones for other make hubs, and was hoping that once I determine what I have, proceed onward with a purchase of cones there.... So I'd have a set...

Thanks
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#9
Check out ebay and amazon.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/150596498142?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Never Give Up!!!
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#10
Just want a confirmation.... That link works on a Normady Rear hub?

(10-22-2014, 05:37 PM)GeorgeET Wrote:  Check out ebay and amazon.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/150596498142?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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#11
(10-23-2014, 12:55 AM)JanJ Wrote:  Just want a confirmation.... That link works on a Normady Rear hub?

(10-22-2014, 05:37 PM)GeorgeET Wrote:  Check out ebay and amazon.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/150596498142?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

That may have just been an example. Measure the dimensions I gave and see if the seller can confirm those on the item. You may want to email the seller my pic above to help with measurement.
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#12
(10-22-2014, 04:40 PM)JanJ Wrote:  I'm not aware of that... Can you post a link?
You might call Wheels Manufacturing Inc & see if they will let you send them your old cones to match up, but your polish job may make it slightly more difficult. Don't worry if the axle thread is correct, getting a new axle is easy, (they sell those too).
The frustrating part is cost- at over $20 a pair + a possible axle swap you better love those old wheels. At about $50 you've got a new entry level machine made wheel.
Also look here.
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#13
Yes that link was put out as an example. Do not know if all those cup measurements are necessary since most use 3/16 bearings which means the cup and the race faces have to fit this diameter. Perhaps OD and depth. (Unless Peugeot is vastly different.)
Measure the bearings to see if they are 3/16". Hardware store or bike shop have gauges for this, with holes for the bearing to fit through. Use new bearings.

Its easier to get a whole set up than pieces that fit together. Length would be most important. If too long it can be neatly cut down, first putting the nut on beyond the cut so it can clean up the threads on removal, first filing sharp edges.

BTW use a automotive or Boat trailer waterproof grease.........I like Bel Rey.

As 1FJEF wrote You can buy a nice set of wheels for around a $100. Unless you want to build your own.

However you can play and thinker some for fun and learning. BDDT.......
Never Give Up!!!
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#14
Yes, it is correct that the diameter and length are the most critical dimensions, assuming the thread pitch/diameter is same as the axle. I should have noted that dimension D only comes into play only if one is forced to use a cone that is too far off in diameter.
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#15
1FJEF Thanks for the suggestion...
I did email them, and they replied. When I get the Axle out they instructed me what measurements to take, and send a picture, and they will compare that with what they have, and offer suggestions.

I will definitely take them up on that in a month!!
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#16
OH IS THIS GOING TO BE A LEARNING EXPERIENCE THIS WINTER!

I have to start somewhere on this rebuild, and so I started with the bent axle and worn cones:
It's been a couple months since I polished the cones with Jeweler's Rouge, installed new BB... And found the bent axle, then put it back together...

Last night I took my Ebay parts for quick release axle, and decided to do a Dry Fit to determine if this would or would not work.... If nothing else I could measure the cones & axle and know what was needed.

Take old solid axle apart, and examined cones and race to see if I could tell if I 'Got Away" with this polishing..
On old Cone, that I polished, there is a slight bearing line ever so slightly above where the old contact line was, on smooth metal. I'm feeling good about that...

Measure the old cone..... Compare to new: New Maybe .2MM less diameter.... 2MM shorter, but can still get locking wrench on it. As I do that I find the Peugeot cone was drilled slightly off center!!! It's not my polishing that made it that way, the cone is drilled off center!!! And I straightened the new rim based on this!!!! I can't wait to see what changes that brings!

I then grab the Ebay axle, and find it's too long for the fork! Well, maybe not...
Never having done this before.... I spent the next 20 min trying to determine what to do.. I have one part, and Lord knows if I'll ever find another, and I don't want to screw it up.

I finally look at the Gitane.... It has quick release front wheel.... Pull it's wheel and try it on Peugeot... Perfect Fit!
Spend 2 hours carefully measuring and cutting the Ebay Axle to the Gitane's measurements....

Dry fit... Use the 2 month old bearings.... (Waiting for parts, and haven't cleaned or greased it yet...)...
Put a little light oil in cones.... Adjust carefully..... Spin.....

IT WORKS!!!

But in reflection of all that happened last night.... I see this is going to be a 'learning' experience....
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#17
Q/R axle can be cut or grinded to a shorter length, though care must be taken to provide proper thread lead-in so that it's easy to thread on parts.
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#18
Thanks... I Used the grinder method... carefully...
I'm a bit blown away by the out of round cone thing. I didn't catch this when I polished the face a couple months ago...
Seeing that I'm the only owner, and know no one has touched this but me... Is this type of thing (Loose manufacture tolerances) the norm, or only for low end bikes?

From pictures of U09's I'm now thinking that this is a 1980 or 1981 year, as 1979 & before pics show chromed metal chain protector, and 1982 shows plastic.... but 1982 and on didn't have metalic blue paint.
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#19
Where I was yesterday, I stumbled across a bike shop with a 1970's Peugeot in Window display, and he spent some time with me on things he's seen on this type of bike. I mentioned the issues I'm encountering.... He had tried a lathe once, to fix an out of round cone, but did it only as last resort, and it got the job done, but he wasn't 100% happy with results. He showed me samples of pitted cones and cups, and now I have a visual reference that mine were bad, but not horrible.

On Stock cranks, He's in favor of loose bearings in place of bearing assy's because of the increase in support contact points.... and suggested (As you folks did) not to replace fixed cup side unless it is damaged...

He discussed how cones pit in the first place, and he said it could be due to dis-simelar metal contents, with humidity aggravating the electrolysis between the three parts... Cone, Bearing, Cup.
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#20
In over 20 years in the bike biz I have never seen that theory, and it makes no sense to me at all. Electrolysis is not possible in a properly greased bearing environment, at the very least not enough to cause pitting. Dissimilar metals?? Ball bearings are coated with chrome, and chromium plating does not participate in electrolysis, which is why it's used to prevent corrosion (although electrolysis is used to create the chrome coating).

Pitting in a bearing is a mechanical process, and the pits simply occur at the weakest point in the metal. After that it's the same process as a pothole in the road. Any defect tends to get larger over time. Yes, corrosion/electrolysis can create pitting, but that does not mean that all pitting is caused by electrolysis.
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