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Rubbing on second smallest cog

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gecici90 Offline
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Posts: 5
Joined: May 2013
Post: #1
Rubbing on second smallest cog
I did the H and L screw adjustments as described on site then release the cable by bolt after all turned the barrel adjuster Clockwise to loose the cable tension, turned it two half turn then tight the bolt.I haven't any noise or ticking noise except the second smallest cog.When the chain on it some ticking sound appears.I found the cable tension not enough only on second smallest cog if i push the lever a little bit sounds disappear because when the chain on that cog the jockey pulley is rubbing the inner side of the chain one or maybe twice on 1 full turn of cog.
If I apply more tension to the cable to stop the ticking sound, it disappears but other biggest cogs shifting problem occurs.I have confused with that.Any suggestions ?

PS.
My Rear derailleur system

Rear derailleur : Shimano Deore XT
Cassette : Deore 10 speed
Chain : HG-X for 10 speed Super narrow
May 11, 2013 03:37 AM
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nfmisso Offline
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San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,326
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #2
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
Is the spacing the same on all the cogs? After having two cases of Shimano cassettes/freewheels where on cog had spacing different from the others, I now stay away from Shimano cassettes and freewheels. I have not had the issue with DNP, Sunrace or Sram.

Nigel
May 11, 2013 08:09 AM
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painkiller Offline
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Peoria, IL. USA
Posts: 1,411
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Post: #3
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
(May 11, 2013 08:09 AM)nfmisso Wrote:  Is the spacing the same on all the cogs? After having two cases of Shimano cassettes/freewheels where on cog had spacing different from the others, I now stay away from Shimano cassettes and freewheels. I have not had the issue with DNP, Sunrace or Sram.

In a world of mass production many variables can happen and the strive for 99.9 % perfection still is quite bad and leaves a ton of bad parts to slip through the cracks. I understand from Nigels previous posts that he is certainly not a Shimano fan about rear clusters. However I have seen the cake on a DNP cluster pictured below that I have never seen ever by any company. If I had to compromise I would recommend the sram and not DNP ever or Shimano. However before making a cluster call. Have the derailluer alignment checked and not eyed and properly adjusted.
I consider myself a drivetrain expert and have been doing this for 30 years.
and the only place to start is with a trued rear wheel and derailluer alignment gauge and next to cable/housing inspection. This is what I do to any bicycle that goes into my stand even for simple cable replacement and can guarantee you that 95%+ are out of tolerance.
Even if the bike is a new assemble out of the box.
Just for fun, pick a number like say 100.000 and see how many mistakes are possible with 99.9% perfection with anything manufactured i.e. your car, your rear cluster,whatever even your anti-bacteria lotion or spray touts fantastic sounding claims.
start with what you have and check one thing at a time check again and rule out as you go. and be sure to check cog spacing as Nigel suggest.


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There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
May 11, 2013 10:03 AM
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nfmisso Offline
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San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,326
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Post: #4
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
Cool 5+ N +2 cluster Smile

The DNP I have is a 7 speed close ratio cassette, that I paid $0.99 + shipping (combined with a bunch of other items from Crosslakesales) on ebay. Sample of one....

I generally go with SRAM cassettes if they have what I want gearing wise.

Nigel
May 11, 2013 01:28 PM
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painkiller Offline
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Peoria, IL. USA
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Post: #5
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
pretty cool huh Nigel, Yea, me to on the sram. not bad for the money.
I will be trying out a sunrace 8speed freewheel on that bike. chrome and around $25


There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
May 11, 2013 01:37 PM
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gecici90 Offline
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Posts: 5
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Post: #6
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
I dont have enough experience about bike repairing I think you're right for the spacing between the cogs.I took some photos this morning.

   

   

My bike is brand new.What should i do for this ? Should i remove the cassette and reinstall ?
May 12, 2013 01:35 AM
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painkiller Offline
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Peoria, IL. USA
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Post: #7
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
Like I said, visual determinations of derailluer alignment is a big no no! I highly doubt your rear cluster is the culprit. If you do not want to purchase a derailluer alignment tool then have it checked by a shop. I prefer a tolerance of + or - 2mm or less.
If you are planning to be your own mechanic I highly recommend you purchase the park tool Dag tool. Like I said, most shops do not take the time to check that fresh from the box, they wait until a complaint by the owner arises then they may dick around with it. If you want a quiet smooth shifting steed. START THERE DO NOT GUESS! TRUE DATA COMPILATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO TRULY RULE OUT SUSPECT COMPONENTS. You will be glad you did!


There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
May 12, 2013 07:20 AM
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nfmisso Offline
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San Jose, CA
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Post: #8
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
PK is the expert on this sort of thing.

Removing and reinstalling the cassette will not make any difference. Though it is a LOT easier to measure the cassette after it is removed with standard calipers http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-digital-caliper-47257.html

Nigel
May 12, 2013 08:36 AM
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painkiller Offline
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Peoria, IL. USA
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Post: #9
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
Thanks Nigel, yes it is easier to measure with cluster off but not nesessary. I prefer using a mm ruler from outside to outside face of cogs in the bottom u part ,not from the tooth part as they are not even around the cog, one could also use a 3mm or comparable allen wrench as a feeler gauge between the cogs or a feeler gauge its self to notice a gross difference. I would do it on the bicycle as the cluster is compressed in a normal fashion


There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
May 12, 2013 09:02 AM
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gecici90 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
You think that the spacing isnt correct, right ? If yes which one is the problem causes ? Spacing between the smallest and the second smallest or between the second smallest and the third smallest cog ? if one of the spacing is not correct, what should i do to fix this ? Does the DAG tool alignment fix that ?
May 12, 2013 01:53 PM
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painkiller Offline
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Peoria, IL. USA
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Post: #11
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
If you are asking me if I think the spacing is off I am truly at a loss, I do not know any other way to tell you that I doubt your rear cluster is the culprit other than i doubt that the rear cluster is spaced wrong. you will have to measure and make that determination. I am saying that the derailluer hanger is out of alignment and the gears need set up correctly after the hanger is aligned properly. Google derailluer hanger alignment, look at a couple videos and try to comprehend what and why this needs done
http://www.parktool.com/product/derailleur-hanger-alignment-gauge-dag-2
like this video


There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
May 12, 2013 02:18 PM
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gecici90 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
Ok i see that

There are two steps which i should follow

1. DAG tool checking : Fixing is very clear and simple by that tool
2. Spacing checking : If one of the spacing is not correct, I should remove and reinstall the whole cogs to fix, right ?
May 12, 2013 02:46 PM
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painkiller Offline
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Peoria, IL. USA
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Post: #13
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
question, have the cogs ever been removed since you have owned the bike (you said it was new )
has the bike ever shifted correctly since you have owned the bike?
Spacing does not just change, by the looks of your pic it is normal, but as we said only measuring will tell for sure.
If your bike used to perform correctly and you have not messed with the rear cluster, it is an alignment or cable housing and adjustment issue. One other note is the video on the park tool site is a joke and shows nothing about the right way to use the tool. you still need to measure with calipers the slide on the dag vertical and horizontal. this guy in the link uses a rubber o ring on his way of working the dag, I measure with blade or caliper.


Even he will tell you new bikes fresh out of the box need checked. as I said before, it is the first thing I do after truing the wheels. Most new bike are out of tolerance and the more speeds you have the more important it is to be aligned. Used bikes are most certainly out of align.
as you comb other videos you may see people suggesting to eye it and grab and bend the hanger with the derailluer STOP, NEVER DO THAT. buy the dag tool !


There are two kinds of people in the world, "Those who help themselves to people, and those who help people!"
May 12, 2013 04:36 PM
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gecici90 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
The cogs hasnt been removed before and the bike hasnt ever shifted correctly since I have the bike

I will have the tool as soon as possible and check the alingment.I'll inform you after all.Thanks for your co-op.
May 13, 2013 01:30 AM
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Bill Offline
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NY,USA
Posts: 2,766
Joined: Sep 2009
Post: #15
RE: Rubbing on second smallest cog
Also machining at the factory is not at best! The thickness, or bent/warped cog can cause this.

Good maintenance to your Bike, can make it like the wheels are, true and smooth!
May 16, 2013 08:40 PM
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